[Stones] Illtyd's stone

Sat Jul 15 01:02:48 BST 2006

hi,

  Cernunnos no [corn/horn?]; the word i've been looking at is 'elain' meaning fawn or hind. there are obviously going to be echoes of Cernunnos, but this is not what i have been looking at; i find it remarkable that these el/elain saints are all, with few exceptions, male -

  here is a perhaps an important exception?

  Llan-elly                                St Elly of Llanelly

  St Elli of Llanelly Brecon was probably a woman, and not the same St Elly of Llanelly, Carms.

  http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/WLS-BRECONSHIRE/2003-02/1044269992

  see also - about 1/3 of the way down,

  http://212.67.202.78/~rwjames/membersonly/shorthistory.htm

  bests

  ric

Thelma Wilcox <thelmawilcox at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

  I suppose you are talking of Cernunnos the stag god, who is found in a roman context and apparently in Dobunni country which is just round here.....looking him up in  Ross's Celtic Realms, came across two illustrations of the orans prayer attitude, which is a buddhic (if thats the right word) attitude hands up in the air at the side of the body.. which is what Moridic is doing - but that must be too much of a coincidence of course.   ;)  not sure about the el and il bit.

Ric <megalith6 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:     Thelma, thanks -

  fascinating

  so what is happening here, is Illtyd's persona being duplicated over time, and his name altering from location to location, please?

  i am increasingly harbouring the suspicion that a percentage of Welsh saints, whose names begin 'el-' and 'il-', are in fact assimilating a pre-Christian deer cult which is, for example, strongly evidenced in Scotland and perhaps less so in Ireland?

  a lot of the 'el-' saints have anecdotes involving stags, i have found.

  bests,

  ric

Thelma Wilcox <thelmawilcox at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    My favourite people- saints of this era -
  Illtyd probably the most famous of them all, a founding father so to speak, when 50 of his soldiers drowned in marshes at Llancarfan he turned to religion and thereby turns the tale.  He is doubled up with other saints, and there are a lot of churches dedicated to him..  Ffynnon  Illytud remains near the ruined cairn called Ty Illtyd at llanhamlach is one example.. he founded the monastery at Caldey Island.
  Elvitus/Elwyn was recorded as confessor at "llan hamelac" (llanhamlach) in Brecon, now dedicated to Illtud and Peter is all that I could find on the other name.  "Llamhamlach has a celtic pillar

  this must be the 'llech' element?

   with a male holdimg a book and a female raised in the "orans" praying attitude, it seems to be inscribed Iohannis and Moridic erected it."

  Taken from Breverton  The book of Welsh Saints, there's about 3 pages on Illtyd, who of course has Arthurian connections as well...

  indeed

Ric <megalith6 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    hi, 

  these two South Welsh saints from history – St Illtyd and St Elwitus - though separated by some 40 miles, appear to both be living in the same 'llan' (holy place)?

  are these two names for one person, i cannot decide - unlikely?

  also, the '-wit-' element is common to both: one's name, the other's site ...

  more intriguingly, 

  'St. Illtyd's ‘ house’ was  known as Llanamllech, but the name is applied to one of those monuments of Druidical antiquity called a cistvaen, erected upon an eminence named Maenest. A rude, upright stone stood formerly on one side of it ['maen' = menhir], and was called by the country people Maen Illtyd, or Illtyd's stone, but was removed about a hundred years ago'. 

  http://makeashorterlink.com/?G57E3276D

  any ideas, please?

.

  Llanhamelach - St. Elwitus 
 at Llanhamelach - Lhanhamelach, or Llanamllech 
 three miles from Brecknock

  Llanamllech - St. Illtyd's 
 known as Llanamllech 
 named Maenest,  [a standing stone]

  Llan  -  ham  -  elach
  Llan  -  am   -   llech

  These are both the same place! [llech = stone]

   Llan-t-wit: Illtyd’s site is now known as Llantwit: compare with Elwitus, El-wit-us

  link discusses the names -

  http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/text/chap_page.jsp?t_id=Cambrensis_Tour&c_id=4

  Lhanhamelach, or Llanamllech, is a small village, three miles from Brecknock, on the road to Abergavenny, (40 miles NE of St. Illtyd's site, [also] known as Llanamllech, on the coast, near to Cardiff)

  http://www.travelbooksonline.com/europe/0008europepage153_250.html
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